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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2008, 03:07 PM
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,213
I remember a sail/snorkle we did a couple of years ago (can't remember the island) and the weather was looking very scarry. I questioned the captian before we went into the water and he said it would pass. We (luckily) had finished our dive and were back on the boat when a very strong storm came up and we were very much in trouble but lucky to ride out the storm...It lasted for 1/2 an hour and we were at the mercy of the storm....What if we had been in the water when it hit us? That is when I too realized that in many cases we are in 3rd world countries and we need to be aware of where we are and make sure we are safe in all ways...We are responsible for our own safety.

This is a very tragic and sad event to have happen.


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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2008, 04:06 PM
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,043
I don't ever want to book an adventure tour through a ship again, you just don't know what you are getting into. My heart breaks for that family!
The same could be said about booking with an outside tour operator also. Generally, booking with the ship is safer. The cruise line deals with reputible tour operators, and checks the vendors license and maintenance records. Yes, accidents can happen and mistakes can be made. And yes, operators or guides can use bad judment and make bad decisions. This can happen with a ship tour or an outside tour.

This was a sad and unfortunate accident. One which I am sure will end up in court. None of us on this board should be judging and fueling rumors which only add to the families heartache. Let the courts decide.
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2008, 04:42 PM
Dave's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,001
This can happen with a ship tour or an outside tour.
Absolutely. I have a great deal of experience assessing human performance, mostly in an industrial environment. The "best" worker in a department can have a lapse in judgment and cause serious harm. I've seen many examples of it. The variables are too vast to list here. So does this mean that "best" worker should be flushed down the toilet? No, it doesn't. People tend to glom onto a single point and use it to pronounce "I'll never use them again". In most cases that is allowing emotions or a pack mentality to overrule reason. Delta Airlines has had airplanes crash and passengers die. Should I never use them again? Same goes for Ford, Chevy, Honda, BMW, and Bentley. Get my point?

Let the investigation be completed and the lawsuits be filed. In the interim, I will continue to book tours with whatever I think is best - some with the cruise line, and some on my own. Knee-jerk reactions are never very intelligent choices.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2008, 09:03 PM
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
Posts: 11,612
The same could be said about booking with an outside tour operator also. Generally, booking with the ship is safer.
I agree. I was going to book the cave tubing with an outside vendor, and have delayed because I'm concerned about the river conditions with swiftness and depth at the present time. I will still book with the cruise line, and may do it this time for Goff's cay.

  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 06:21 AM
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: birmingham, al
Posts: 1,843
Please don't view my post as being insensitive... but, with all due respect, people will perish in all sorts of situations. Six Flags locations around the nation, Disney World and Disney Land, etc. etc., all have injuries and deaths each year. It's just part of a normal cycle of life. People are prone to making choices and taking certain risks in life. The vast majority of us come out unscathed and ready to do it again! The previous posts seem to favor letting the court system sort it out and then let business resume to normal pre-accident levels. People take risks everyday. Do we have to sue every time things don't go in our favor?? Do you sue a casino when you lose money at the blackjack table? Do you sue the cruise line when you don't win at bingo before the big show that night? Freedom of choice is a privilege that we don't need to take for granted. A tragedy is a tragedy and it's always unfortunate but we, as free citizens, need to learn to read the fine print of anything that we sign. You cannot take risks in life without being prepared for the repurcussions.
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 07:02 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 675
Thank you! I believe the court system exists to keep people in check from making negligent decisions in the name of profit. However, in many instances I chose to do an activity which could become dangerous (see the post about snorkeling during a storm) and I do so knowing that there are factors outside of human control. The key is "I choose" My decision, my responsibility, and in the end if i have not been totally misled, my liability.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 07:13 AM
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 993
hum, the court post brings lots of thoughts to mind. but i think it boils down to trust, they trusted the tour to have a safe responsible tour. the tour dropped the ball, as was PROVEN in the ladies death. I also believe that people are too quick to go to court. but this was a totally TOTALLY preventable death. I hope the courts do settle it.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 07:47 AM
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: birmingham, al
Posts: 1,843
Macmom, other than deaths from natural causes, all deaths could be considered "preventable". YOU make the choice to get in a vehicle to commute to work every day... YOU make the choice to board a plane to an exotic destination... YOU make the choice to run the yellow light as it is turning red... YOU make the choice to abuse your body with excessive amounts of drugs and alcohol... YOU make the choice to terrorize your body with Big Macs, french fries, and large milk shakes... YOU make the choice to buy a motorcycle and get on the interstate... YOU make the choice to wear or not wear a seatbelt... YOU make the choice of having elective surgery... YOU make the choice of overexposure to the sun... YOU make the choice of a high stress lifestyle... etc. etc. We are responsible for our own choices and behaviors... We should not blame others for our decisions.
I am allergic to peanuts... Several years ago I ate french fries at a restaurant in a local mall that were cooked in peanut oil. Nowhere on the menu did it state that the fries were cooked in peanut oil and I (emphasis on "I") didn't ask. I became very ill and spent a few days in intensive care. Did I sue? NO!! I made the choice to eat the fries. I was not force fed. Now, what I did do was e-mail the corporate office of the restaurant and told them about what had happened. They apologized for the oversight and, within a month, they had warnings on their menus warning of the risk of their fried items being cooked in peanut oil. Did I profit?? NO. Should I have profited?? NO. Consequences are a normal part of decision making and we just need to quit blaming others for situations that we willingly put ourselves in.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 08:27 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 5,115
I'm in agreement with Drlivingston here. The only way that a lawsuit should be filled is if the tour company a) did not warn them it was unsafe and or b) the tour company made some claim that there was no danger. I think it would be difficult to prove either one of those things happening. If they were warned that the river was too high and therefore not safe and or this person choose NOT to wear the life vest provided (we were MADE to wear ours) then they should not be able to sue this tour operator OR the cruise line. The sad thing is that they will anyway, because they see the cruise line and a big corporation with deep pockets and think they will get money for their carelessness.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 08:37 AM
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 993
I agree with both of you to an extent. I assumed to much, I assumed the operator told them it was safe, I assumed the operator told them the water was swift, I assumed the operator told them it was more dangerous with the waters up.
I agree with making choices that are right for each person. We have all been put in a position where our lives were in danger thru no fault of our own. peanut oil.
I had my life put in danger by a doctor who was very negligent. I dont believe he did it on purpose but never the less I came very very very close to dieing because of it. I didnt sue, altho I could have and would have won, but that is just not the kind of person I am.
my assumption is what made be believe that it should go to court. I was wrong, I needed the facts before I should have made the statement.
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