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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2007, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LisaP:
quote:
Originally posted by CGT:
I think that the best for the ship is for use in a stationary role. I would prefer a big hotel chain to get her, restore her exterior and convert the rest of her in to a 5 star hotel with all the mod cons. The interior of the ship has gone, so this would not affect the integrity of the vessel. I can imagine her in New York fulfilling this role.
CGT, I suggested something similar back on page 2. Now -- how might we work together to make this happen?


Do you know any big hotel chains?
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" Le paquebot France est lancé. Il va épouser la mer. (...) Sa mission sera de transporter d'un bord à l'autre de l'Atlantique des hommes, c'est-à-dire des pensées et des activités, des foyers de connaissance et des sources de travail, de l'art et de la richesse."

Général De Gaulle, le 11 mai 1960

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2007, 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by tncruiseman:
I may be getting facts twisted, but I think I read somewhere that prior to NCL lease/purchase/whatever-it-is arrangement, the owners (Cantor) were considering scrapping her or sinking as an offshore reef. Not defending NCL, but if it weren't for them paying the $1000+ EVERY DAY to have her sit there, she may have already succombed to the torch. We can only wish, wait, and wonder about the future.
Isn't the vessel on the US National Register of Historical Monuments? She would not be scrapped or sunk - she'd go to auction.
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" Le paquebot France est lancé. Il va épouser la mer. (...) Sa mission sera de transporter d'un bord à l'autre de l'Atlantique des hommes, c'est-à-dire des pensées et des activités, des foyers de connaissance et des sources de travail, de l'art et de la richesse."

Général De Gaulle, le 11 mai 1960

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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2007, 06:35 AM
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My understanding is that SSUS is on the National Register of Historic place. This only recognizes a structure or area as being “worthy of preservation.” It doesn’t place and particular restrictions on the owners. The entire neighborhood I live in is on the National Register, and we only have to abide by our city and county codes. We can build, tear down, and modify as we see fit within building codes.

I’m also interested in the assertion that NCL doesn’t own the vessel outright. Everything I can find, including government registries, list the owners as Maritime Investment Inc., with the same physical address as NCL’s Miami headquarters. I would very much appreciate any documentation you have that indicates otherwise.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2007, 07:08 AM
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The only document that would prove they do not own it outright would be found in a UCC filing search. That would show who any secured creditors would be.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2007, 08:51 AM
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It is rumored on Reuben Goossens' site today, that the SS United States may be on the move soon.
I don't have a good feeling about this.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2007, 09:47 AM
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Here's another hint of a story..

http://blogs.usatoday.com/cruiselog/...back_for_.html
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2007, 03:42 AM
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Hi All,

Some sad, but not expected news from Reuben Goossens.
He reports today (8/17), that the SS Independence/Oceanic will be towed to the breakers this month.
Reuben also states that his source indicated that the SS United States will be the next to go.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2007, 06:47 AM
 
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Too bad that NCL America was flawed from the start. NCL should have restored the Big U as a 5-Star Hotel ship in NYC.

The problem with the Big U was the fact that this great vessel fell into the hands of incapable businessmen who didn't have a clue about using the ship's potential, beginning with Richard Hadley to Fred Mayer of commodore cruise line. Otherwise, the ship could been placed in the mothball reserve fleet.

This is a clear example of bad management at its worst without a clear business plan in mind for the ship, after the funds were in order.

I certainly hope that the Big U will not follow the SS Indy's footsteps. It would be a very grave mistake to see the SS United States go the Indian scrapyard. It's bad enough that the ship's interiors were gutted down in Turkey because of the stupid notion that the investors would receive funding to rebuild the ship, when the job could have been done in Germany. It would have left the ship's interiors intact, as well as the equipment.

I hope that someone does finally steps in and buys the vessel. Dispite its condition over the years of neglict, the Big U is too important of a ship to be sent either to the bottom of the ocean floor or to the scrappers.

I feel that Colin Veitch is a very bad businessman, like his predecessors before him. He had the power to convince Star's management about overhauling the SS Norway's engines before the explosion. So when the time came, it would have been sold quickly for their asking price, after they had recoupe the investment cost of overhauling the ship's powertrain.

Too bad they don't see things from that perspective.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2007, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Redlinekid2:
Too bad that NCL America was flawed from the start. NCL should have restored the Big U as a 5-Star Hotel ship in NYC.

The problem with the Big U was the fact that this great vessel fell into the hands of incapable businessmen who didn't have a clue about using the ship's potential, beginning with Richard Hadley to Fred Mayer of commodore cruise line. Otherwise, the ship could been placed in the mothball reserve fleet.

This is a clear example of bad management at its worst without a clear business plan in mind for the ship, after the funds were in order.

I certainly hope that the Big U will not follow the SS Indy's footsteps. It would be a very grave mistake to see the SS United States go the Indian scrapyard. It's bad enough that the ship's interiors were gutted down in Turkey because of the stupid notion that the investors would receive funding to rebuild the ship, when the job could have been done in Germany. It would have left the ship's interiors intact, as well as the equipment.

I hope that someone does finally steps in and buys the vessel. Dispite its condition over the years of neglict, the Big U is too important of a ship to be sent either to the bottom of the ocean floor or to the scrappers.

I feel that Colin Veitch is a very bad businessman, like his predecessors before him. He had the power to convince Star's management about overhauling the SS Norway's engines before the explosion. So when the time came, it would have been sold quickly for their asking price, after they had recoupe the investment cost of overhauling the ship's powertrain.

Too bad they don't see things from that perspective.
I'm not going to argue that previous owners had no clear business plans on what to do with the SS US or not. But, it takes more than plans to get things done. It takes financing. While there have been plenty of owners willing to buy the SS US relatively cheaply over the years, few had the financial resources to complete their vision.
Just check out NCL's SEC filings at
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318742/00009501...-07-001914-index.htm

Specifically read
535199 EX-4.43 SHIPBUILDING CONTRACT FOR HULL NO. C33
or
543158 EX-4.44 SHIPBUILDING CONTRACT FOR HULL NO. D33
and
677867 EX-4.33 SYNDICATE LOAN FACILITY/HULL C33
or
653694 EX-4.34 SYNDICATE LOAN FACILITY/HULL D33

Just read two, not all four. You'll discover NCL has to pay the shipyard 100% of the building cost of a new ship upon delivery. You'll also discover cruise lines get loans to finance new ships, or "large capital projects" such as refurbishing a cruise ship. The banks expect 20% of the loan as a down payment. The banks also expect bi-annual payments on time for a period up to 10 years.
How do you think NCL raises the 20% down payment?
Check out one of these, there's many more supplemental deeds in the list.
105132 EX-4.25 SIXTH SUPPLEMENTAL DEED/NORWEGIAN DAWN
106371 EX-4.26 THIRD SUPPLEMENTAL DEED/NORWEGIAN SUN
219476 EX-4.27 SEVENTH SUPPLEMENTAL DEED/PRIDE OF AMERICA
110822 EX-4.31 THIRD SUPPLEMENTAL DEED/PRIDE OF HAWAI'I

You'll discover NCL refinances existing cruise ships to raise the down payments for capital projects. That's how NCL and other business interests finances expensive capital projects.

My point is it takes more than a businessman's or corporation's plans to accomplish these projects. It takes financial partners, especially banks. The banks not only want the down payment, they also expect collateral to guarantee their loans, and what they consider a sound business plan.

Assuming NCL could raise the down payment to refurbish a ship, be it either the SS US or SS Norway, and has a sound business plan; and if the refurbishment costs more than the value of the ship, is risking another ship as collateral worth the risk?
I believe you'll find refurbishing the damage SS Norway will cost more than the value of the repaired ship. I also believe, although I wish I didn't, that refurbishing the SS US is more expensive than it is worth too. The best things going for the SS US, in comparison to the SS Norway, is that it has had far less use, and since it had been previously stripped, it would be easier to modify to meet 2010 SOLAS rules; therefore it could remain in service long enough to outlast the term of any loan. But it still has that collateral problem.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2007, 09:15 PM
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I'm just very upset that NCL bought these two, last U.S. flag liners with promises to return them to service, and once again, follow the Norway/France to their demise in a foreign scrapyard... makes me ill to the core. Instead of building those hideous, new ships... NCL America should have restored the Norway, the Independence, and the United States as an alternative to these modern, hideous behemoths that claim to be cruise ships.

There is one old liner, the MV Regal Empress of Imperial Majesty Cruise Line that is making an excellent profit and is always filled to capacity. She sails out of Ft. Lauderdale on 2 night cruises and is a very popular ship. NCL America could have taken this road... for the Norway, prior to her boiler explosion, was a still very popular ship.
I'm sure if she had been repaired, she would have continued to make money for NCL. She was a diamond... a jewel. If the Independence and the United States are scrapped... I hope the publicity from this will sink NCL as well.
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