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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2005, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TW:
The Dream should be taken out of service until fixed! When your standing at the dock suit cases checked, vacation planned, flights arranged you don't take a refund. NCL has a responseablity here to make sure there ship old or new is in top running condition everytime it sails. It is running on two out of four engines (probably aux engines) and has had problems for months. Customers should be notified before they even get to port and offered a refund not when there standing on the pier ready to board!!!!
Do you know how much money is lost for every cruise, and how much it costs to have a ship along a pier?

It costs NCL over $3 million per year to keep the SS US docked in Philadelphia. A year consists of 365 days. Here's the math:
$3,000,000/365= $8,219.178 per day.
If the Dream had been removed from service, to date has been 60 days, or $480,000+ in docking fees, the entire rest of the Alaskan cruise season would have been 110 days, or $880,000+ in docking fees.
The Dream carries 1748 passengers, double occupancy. During the prime summer months in Alaska, NCL earns at least $2000 per passenger minimum for a 10-11 day cruise. That's $3,496,000 per cruise at a minimum. We all know they make more than that, more likely $4,000,000 per cruise. They lost the first engine in early June. Let's assume NCL cancelled all cruises on the Dream since that cruise, NCL would have lost 6 cruises to date, $24,000,000 and 11 cruises for the rest of the Alaskan season, $44,000,000.

Then we come up with NCL ability at finding a available shipyard. Cruise lines book shipyard periods at least a year in advance. It's more likely scheduled two years in advance.

As for the time it takes to repair a thrown rod in a diesel engine, it could take months before the spare parts are made, and weeks to install them. Few warehouses in the world stock 30 feet long crankshafts. Crankshafts are individually milled to specifications from stock 30 foot steel rods as they are needed.

No cruise corporation cancels cruises on the lost of a single engine. No cruise corporation can afford having a ship sitting idle somewhere for up to two years to fix one of the main engines either.

NCL did post information last June about the damaged engine on the Dream to all travel agencies. If you booked using a travel agent, it's the travel agents job to inform you before you left for Seattle, like last June, when you could have cancelled or changed all of your travel plans without penalty.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2005, 06:46 PM
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I regret that Barb had a bad experience with no room credit and no help in paying for extra charges due to later flight home. This is horrible and I am sorry. We were lucky in that we drove to Seattle. Also, we certainly did recieve the $100 credit. If they are not currently offering a hefty credit, shame on NCL. Please note that NCL (Norwegian Cruise Lines) is not associated with Norway. I hear that NCL is now owned by an investor in Thailand. His motive is to make a maximum profit. Onw would think that customer servide should be part of the plan. Thus I hope that Barb's husband writing them will help. Please report results. NCL should have mailed us a letter expressing regret that we missed one port. Meanwhile, we will not cruise on NCL.
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2005, 07:34 AM
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Good customer service is how you get customers to return. The problems with the Dream may or may not have been avoided, how NCL treats there customers is what is important here. These people paid for a service that they are not getting. NCL needs to bend over backwards at times like this to componsate these people. These are there customers, without these people there out of buisness!
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2005, 07:02 PM
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This was not exciting nor was it fun and no I did not need a camera to take pictures of the ship as it limped into port 7 hours late. The channel 7 news helicopter did that for us as my husband called the news from the ship! We did ask NCL what the problem was before we flew to Seattle and they said "speed problems getting into Sitka" It was not until we were on board and sailing that they informed us it was one of the engines. Then, outside of Prince Rupert, the second engine went, leaving us "walking" all the way to Seattle. If NCl had been upfront with us in the first place I would never had set foot on the Dream (with my entire family). I wouldn't go on a plane with one engine out and had NCL been truthful with their passengers (some people did not even know about the lost port until we sailed!) I would not have gone on the cruise either. All of this has nothing to do with food, entertainment, sewers, sunrises, etc. It has EVERYTHING to do with customer service and being truthful to the public. NCL should be embarrassed and ashamed at how they treat their customers, if I did this to the customers in my business, I wouldn't have any money to go on a cruise! I will certainly post their reply, if any. If you want to see the article in the 2 Seattle local papers about this little "problem", it ran on Friday the 12th. Believe me NO ONE was laughing and except for the TV crew at the dock, no one was looking forward to capturing the moment on film either.
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2005, 09:36 PM
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We have reservations for the Sept. 1 Norwegian Dream cruise and I have been on the 'phone with NCL. They INSIST, "We have no knowledge of any problems with the Norwegian Dream." No matter who I ask, they repeat this same oral form letter. They even insist they have no knowledge that the ship was late into Seattle and late leaving! I understand the ship has NEVER gone to Sitka this summer yet they sell Sitka as a port. This is not only poor policy, it must be illegal. Sitka was listed when we purchased and that was AFTER the season began and AFTER they knew they'd not stop at Sitka. They charge for Sitka (people wouldn't buy the cruise if that wasn't a port) and then don't take you there.
We don't want to go on this cruise (we're taking our grown kids and the main attraction was Sitka) but there's no way to get our money back!! I also understand from postings that if you decline to board they refuse to refund money you've been charged for shore excursions. I'm SO SORRY we didn't stick with Holland America. HOW can they get by with this? People need to stand up for their rights and let others know about this dishonest marketing.
I e-mailed the reporter who did the article about the passengers being put in a hotel with no food and no promised tour last week and asked her to please follow up with "what's going on with the current cruise." She just may have a great expose' here. Anyone else concerned about an upcoming Norwegian Nightmare cruise?
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2005, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TW:
Good customer service is how you get customers to return. These people paid for a service that they are not getting. These are there customers, without these people there out of buisness!
I agree, good customer service is how to get customers to return, and that without customers, NCL will go out of business.
But I disagree that NCL is not providing the contracted services. Read your cruise contract again. What does NCL promise?

The transportation of passengers and baggage is governed by the terms and conditions of the Passenger Ticket Contract contained in the Passenger Cruise Ticket. Your acceptance of the Passenger Ticket Contract and acceptance of passage on the vessel constitute acceptance of the terms, conditions and information contained in this brochure and the Passenger Ticket Contract. The Passenger Ticket Contract contains information that affects your legal rights, and we recommend you read the terms carefully.

NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINE Passenger Ticket Contract

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Passengers are advised to carefully read the terms and conditions of the Passenger Ticket Contract set forth below which affect your legal rights and are binding. Acceptance or use of this Contract shall constitute the agreement of Passenger to these Terms and Conditions.
7. The passenger admits a full understanding of the nature and character of the vessel and assumes all risks of travel, transportation and handling of passengers and baggage. The passenger assumes the risk of and releases Carrier from liability for any injury, loss or damage whatsoever arising from, caused by or in the judgment of the Carrier or Master rendered necessary or advisable by reason of: any act of God or public enemies; force majeure; arrest; restraints of governments or their departments or under color of law; rulers or people; piracy; war; revolution; extortion; terrorist actions or threats; hijacking; bombing; threatened or actual rebellion, insurrection, or civil strife; fire, explosion, collision, stranding or grounding; weather conditions; docking or anchoring difficulty; congestion; perils of the sea, rivers, canals, locks or other waters; perils of navigation of any kind; lack of water or passageway in canals; theft; accident to or from machinery, boilers, or latent defects (even though existing at embarkation or commencement of voyages); barratry; desertion or revolt of crew; seizure of ship by legal process; strike, lockout or labor disturbance (regardless whether such strike, lockout or labor disturbance results from a dispute between the Carrier and its employees or any other parties); or from losses of any kind beyond the Carrier’s control. Under any such circumstances the cruise may be altered, shortened, lengthened, or cancelled in whole or part without liability to the Carrier for a refund or otherwise. Except as otherwise specified above, if the vessel does not sail on or about the scheduled or advertised date for any reason whatsoever, including fault of Carrier, Carrier shall have liberty to substitute any other vessel or means of transportation, regardless whether owned or operated by Carrier, and to re-berth passengers thereon or, at Carrier’s option, to refund the passage money paid or a pro rata portion thereof without further liability for damages or losses of any kind whatsoever. Carrier, in its sole discretion, shall have full liberty to proceed without pilots and tow and to assist vessels in all situations; to deviate from the direct or customary course for any purpose, including, without limitation, in the interest of passengers or of the vessel, or to save life or property; to put in at any unscheduled or unadvertised port; to cancel any scheduled call at any port for any reason and at any time before, during or after sailing of the vessel; to omit, advance or delay landing at any scheduled or advertised port; to put back to port of embarkation or to any port previously visited if Carrier shall deem prudent; to substitute another vessel or ports of call without prior notice and without incurring any liability to the passengers on account thereof for any loss, damage or delay whatsoever, whether consequential or otherwise. Carrier shall have the absolute right, without liability for compensation to the passenger of any kind, to comply with governmental orders, recommendations or directions, including but not limited to those pertaining to health, security, immigration, customs or safety. In the case of quarantine, each passenger must bear all risks, losses and expenses caused thereby and will be charged for maintenance, payable day-by-day, if maintained on board the vessel for such period of quarantine. Passenger assumes all risks and losses occasioned by delay or detention howsoever arising. Costs connected with embarkation or debarkation of passengers and/or baggage and costs of transfer between vessel and shore as a result of the circumstances enumerated in this paragraph must be borne by the passenger.

Therefore, if the cruise ship is ready for boarding at your port the day of your cruise, or about, including the next day. NCL really owes any passenger nothing. NCL can shorten or end the cruise anywhere and owe the passengers nothing.
Offers of assisting passengers to reschedule flights, offers to putting passengers up and feeding them overnight, and offers to provide cruise discounts of whatever money value for this or a next cruise, is NCL bending over backwards and going beyond the terms of the contract everyone accepts.
Of course we differ on how much NCL should do, but anything NCL does offer is already more than what is required by the contract.
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2005, 04:49 PM
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The portions quoted of the NCL contract is really scarry. Combine this with the possible murder of soemone on Royal Caribbean last week and one realizes that cruise ships are outside of controlling legal authorities. It would be beneficial if a legal expert compared the standard wordage and fine print that each of the cruise lines require their customers to agree to.
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2005, 08:27 PM
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ISN'T IT AMAZINGLY EASY TO READ THESE POSTINGS AND KNOW WHICH ONES WERE WRITTEN BY AN NCL REPRESENTATIVE?
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2005, 08:31 PM
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Ron, I have read your responses carefully and come away with two thoughts. First, it seems that you must be an employee or officer with NCL trying to perform damage control for the unfortunate situation NCL seems to be engaged in and second, you are trying to pass the terms and conditions of the passenger ticket contract as the limit of NCL's liability under the circumstances.

I must argue that the type of contract that you are holding as definitive of NCL's liability under the situation is not at all the case.

Imagine parking your brand new automobile in a parking lot and having one of its employees steal it and subsequently demolish the automobile in a horrific accident. The "terms and Conditions" that appeared on the back of the parking ticket that absolves the parking lot of any and all damages simply will not hold up in court. Why?

It is a one-way contract that one party has no say in negotiating the terms and conditions of. This contract (known as a culpable contract) is voided when there is any misrepresentaion, fraud, lack of care or any other circumstance that inflicts damages on a party to the contract.

As an example, if you signed an agreement that a hotel would not be responsible for damages under any circustances as a simple one-way agreement printed on the back of your hotel receipt and then the hotel flooded because of faulty pipes that the hotel had knowledge of, the culpable agreement would be null and void.

So how do you justify that fact that NCL knew that passengers would be damaged, yet chose not to tell them and then elects to stand behind a cupable agreement that would not be relevant under the circumstances?

Walter
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2005, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
It is a one-way contract that one party has no say in negotiating the terms and conditions of. This contract (known as a culpable contract) is voided when there is any misrepresentaion, fraud, lack of care or any other circumstance that inflicts damages on a party to the contract.
Walter
You'll still have to prove misrepresentation, fraud, lack of care, or any other circumstances that inflicts damages.

What damages are inflicted upon a party if the ship runs late because it lost an engine, and skips ports regularly?

Airlines cancel flights and delay flights all the time. Their only obligation is to assist you upon reaching your final destination. Trains run late all the time, again their only obligation is to get you there.

On a round trip cruise, NCL plans on getting you back, but doesn't even guarantee that.

In your parking lot example, would the parking garage be responsible for damages if your car was stolen and destroyed by a thief that had no connections at all with the garage?
 
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2005, change, charges, cruise, dream, due, fee, itinerary, ncl, norwegian, port, refund, refunds, seattle, sitka

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